Interesting discussion guys – it\u2019s a pleasure to read respectful discourse. It’s a topic I have regularly encountered and I see it as a vital one for the Church. \u00a0
My history was that I only experienced God\u2019s love in light of Him convicting me about sin and making obvious my need to repent while firmly in sins grip.<\/p>\n
I suddenly understood my whole life was blatantly against this God I didn\u2019t think existed. It broke me to know that He loved me despite knowing in advance that I would chose so much against Him, contrary to His laws and against the people He thought were precious. He loved me anyway(!) but it was suddenly clear I had been sinning against Him and I had to stop.<\/p>\n
Everything I read in scripture lined up. Highlighted from many angles is the vital importance of repentance, both in a) my turning away from sin, (putting to death the flesh etc) and b) by way of God changing my heart & mind to come into alignment with His view of sin.<\/p>\n
All through my walk I have come across Christians who have centred on only one aspect of this repentance over the other, some staunch in their position with denial or even almost hatred of the other. In general, more liberal \/ charismatic versus the more conservative \/ reformed. <\/p>\n
On the one hand one group seems to avoid the topic of sin, repentance and champion \u2018loving\u2019 people in friendship relationships (and aid), believing the Holy Spirit will bring any conviction or correction.<\/p>\n
On the other side, it\u2019s almost like the person must have cleaned up their act before coming to Christ, the specific doctrines they believe being of hyper importance often leaving very little room for the Holy Spirit.<\/p>\n
I have been grieved while in either group, never fitting in and finding it very difficult to discuss without people getting offended or even breaking \u2018relationship\u2019 over certain different stances!<\/p>\n
When I read scripture and when I look at both groups, I am convinced now more than ever , that these two groups desperately need each other. I see that when Jesus said our love for other being the sign to the world of our discipleship status, He meant that our love of each other was higher than our agreement \/ disagreement on doctrines or issues. If we are just comfortable in our \u2018church\u2019 because everyone agrees or we avoid genuine relationship, I believe we are are neglecting part of the benefit (opportunity for sanctification) and power of the church.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Andrew I don\u2019t see any evidence of Jesus just hanging with sinners out of \u2018love\u2019 that condones sin, quite the opposite. He called His disciples with a clear call to action and discipleship. We are given clear examples where people went away unsaved due to Jesus\u2019 clear line in the sand about sin. He didn\u2019t chase after them or hang out & \u2018love\u2019 them. In fact, we are clearly told He had a mission in those situations where we like to think He was investing in ‘relationship evangelism\u2019. But scripture makes clear He did have an \u2018agenda’ in this scenario:\u00a0<\/p>\n
\u00a0But when the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, \u201cWhy does your teacher eat with such scum?\u201d He was there to call them, not to \u2018love\u2019 them (I see calling someone \/ changing them in this context as loving). Am I missing something? I find your comment on Jesus\u2019 acceptance of Mathew interesting, something I have not noticed, I will go searching\u2026\u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0I have long lamented that so many Christians genuinely believe that \u2018loving\u2019 their unsaved family & friends just means being nice, and helping \/ supporting them. As a suicidal drug addict, I needed the message of hope, not a friend \/ someone to hang out with me. God has chosen the message of the cross to awaken faith, so we need to be purposefully presenting that to people. I spent years in addiction and a terrible lifestyle – relationships meant little, the only things that edged me closer to salvation was when people got through their fear and purposed to get a message to me. God used many seeds to bring me to enough sorrow to be willing to repent and boy am I grateful!\u00a0<\/p>\n Unfortunately, so many people I have witnessed to over the years from a similar scene will reply to me \u201coh no I tried Jesus \/ Christianity – it doesn\u2019t work\u201d. They went to church, people \u2018loved\u2019 them, they had experiences on a Sunday and often have been to Bible studies. After talking to them, I often discover they had never been told of the importance of repentance. The changed life they sought was so desperately close, but never presented to them. Sure I understand that the evangelistic message they had been given is a factor here\u2026another downfall of the liberal \u2018God wants you to have a better \/ easier \/ more prosperous \/ life message.\u00a0<\/p>\n But I have also run into people who have been to reformed style churches and only been told of the human side of repentance – addicted and unable to live up to the high standard that these reserved people seem to find so easy. I was saved 21 years ago and I still struggle, I feel for those entrenched. There again is a gapping hole in what they have been presented – they have been left powerless to win against their carnal nature. The only \u2018key\u2019 they have been given is \u2019try harder in resisting sin and confess after failure\u2019. This cycle is hardly the life presented in pages of the New Testament.<\/p>\n Jesus was not a clinical evangelist with no feelings for others. Again we are clearly given examples of the opposite – His compassion palpable and His grieving broadcast throughout the Gospels. But did He (and can we)\u00a0genuinely love someone without presenting them with the reason for all their problems (sin), the solution to them (Jesus) and the vital response to His offer (repentance)? I can\u2019t see it – is it just my experience \/ history clouding my judgment?\u00a0<\/p>\n When we truly love, I believe we will be motivated to call them to repentance, not \u2018just\u2019 because of their eternal destiny, but also due to what they are missing here and now (although this should never be the promise). People are destitute – depressed – disillusioned – hopeless\u2026 His love towards them (as they are) should be our fuel to reach out and truly love them with the only Way of salvation.\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Interesting discussion guys – it\u2019s a pleasure to read respectful discourse. It’s a topic I have regularly encountered and I see it as a vital one for the Church. \u00a0My history was that I only experienced God\u2019s love in light of Him convicting me about sin and making obvious my need to repent while firmly in sins grip. I suddenly understood my whole life was blatantly against this God I didn\u2019t think existed. It broke me to know that He loved me despite knowing in advance that I would chose so much against Him, contrary to His laws and against …<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[117],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1549","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-preaching"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pasDCW-oZ","jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1549","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1549"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1549\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1550,"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1549\/revisions\/1550"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1549"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1549"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wildeden.com.au\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1549"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
12 When Jesus heard this, he said, \u201cHealthy people don\u2019t need a doctor\u2014sick people do.\u201d13 Then he added, \u201cNow go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: \u2018I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.\u2019 For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.\u201d<\/i>Matthew 9:9-13 (NLT)<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n